imeli said: nahh...that's just another one of your excuses and nothing else. your links aren't reliable at all as a certain someone has already pointed out. all you do is respond with straw man arguments when you are disproven. You are one to talk I always provide reliable proof unlike you I also don't rely on straw man unlike you Your arguments are preposterous |
| I wouldn't doubt Europe has persecuted Jews more than the Middle East generally has. That just proves Jews are more foreign to Europe than they are to their Semitic brethren, and they should have stayed in the Middle East. Jews and Muslims worked together in the early Islamic invasions of Europe. Nowadays, Muslims hate Jews more than anyone due to Israel and US foreign policy, and Europeans have Holocaust guilt which makes them unable to question anything Jews do, though this effect is waning. I recall hearing that Jews are barred from certain professions in Iran, which might explain why there is relatively little resentment against them there. Usury was a large reason why Jews were kicked out of so many countries in the past. Also, you're dealing with Shia in Iran, as opposed to the largely Sunni population flooding into Europe at the moment. |
imeli said: lmao you're one to talk. all of my proof is reliable. all of yours is either biased or fake. you respond with straw-man to everyone who disagrees with you. your arguments are fallacious. No I do not Your criticism/arguments are ludicrous and hold no credibility whatsoever |
Altairius said: I wouldn't doubt Europe has persecuted Jews more than the Middle East generally has. That just proves Jews are more foreign to Europe than they are to their Semitic brethren, and they should have stayed in the Middle East. Jews and Muslims worked together in the early Islamic invasions of Europe. Nowadays, Muslims hate Jews more than anyone due to Israel and US foreign policy, and Europeans have Holocaust guilt which makes them unable to question anything Jews do, though this effect is waning. I recall hearing that Jews are barred from certain professions in Iran, which might explain why there is relatively little resentment against them there. Usury was a large reason why Jews were kicked out of so many countries in the past. Also, you're dealing with Shia in Iran, as opposed to the largely Sunni population flooding into Europe at the moment. I have to agree with many of the things you said At least you know what you are talking about unlike some people here imeli said: my criticism/arguments hold more validity than anything you have posted on this website. No it does not My arguments hold more credibility than any of your arguments/criticism |
No they are not You've got no proof to support your claim. It's all your wishful thinking Unlike you, I rely on facts Your criticism is flawed |
imeli said: Yes they are. You have no proof to support your claims. It's all your from you delusional, bigoted way of thinking. Your criticism is flawed. No they are not Another one of your false argument with no proof to support your claim Criticize me when you have proof to support your claim For now, your arguments/criticism are flawed |
imeli said: Yes they are. This is just another one of your false arguments supported with no proof to support your claim. Criticize me when you have reliable proof to support your claim. Your argument is flawed. No they aren't I already provided many proof to support my claim Your baseless arguments with no proof mean nothing to me Your arguments are flawed |
DrGeroCreation said: We're not comparing the "standard" population VS the Jewish population, that is also of complete irrelevancy. We're talking about demographic changes within the Jewish population of the two places and the Jewish population only.Australia has a way higher percentage of Jews than Sweden does that automatically show that Australia is better for Jews than Sweden? Talking about one having a higher percentage than the other or one having a greater migration of Jews proves nothing. If something causes the population of a certain ethnic minority group to reduce by such great numbers then yes, that's probably because life there isn't all fine and dandy.If you can find articles of widespread Jewish persecution in Iran which have caused significant reduction in the Iranian Jewish population then you would have a point. http://forward.com/news/319269/irans-jews-win-secure-place-in-mullahs-world-with-strings-attached/Second class citizens https://www.algemeiner.com/2014/05/12/a-reminder-of-how-iran-treats-its-jewish-citizens/They try as far as possible to melt into the background, even taking false Muslim first names to hide their identity. Most probably, they have only been spared worse persecution by the Iranian government’s desire to lure the West into removing the trade sanctions, so the mullahs can once again profit from Iran’s vast oil wealth. To achieve this, they need to appear to be “moderate” in Western eyes. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4361005,00.htmlIranian leadership claims Jewish minority treated fairly, but experts, rabbis, offer contrasting views; 'There's basic fear,' says researcher; 'There's no need to go looking for trouble,' rabbi warns https://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2013/05/13/the-perils-of-religious-persecution-in-iran/#34084a91241dAmong the many groups on the receiving end of the government’s brutality are non-Muslims and even non-traditional Shia Muslims, including Gonabadi Dervishes. Explained the Special Rapporteur: “adherents of recognized and unrecognized religions face discrimination in law and/or in practice. This includes various levels of intimidation, arrest and detention. A number of interviewees maintained that they were repeatedly interrogated about their religious beliefs, and a majority of interviewees reported being charged with national security crimes and/or propaganda against the state for religious activities. Several interviewees reported that they were psychologically and physically tortured.” http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/iran-vast-diaspora-abroad-and-millions-refugees-home/Unlike other receiving countries, the Iranian Jewish diaspora in Israel is not a recent phenomenon. In fact, 41 percent of Iranians living in Israel in the early 1990s immigrated there before the establishment of the Israeli state in 1948; only 15 percent were admitted between 1975 and 1991, largely as a result of religious persecution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews#Safavid.2C_Afsharid_and_Qajar_dynasties_.281502.E2.80.931925.29https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews#Pahlavi_dynasty_.281925.E2.80.931979.29 PERSECUTIONS Like I said, Iran is also a theocratic shithole, meaning that life is probably worse for its citizens in general and not just Jews. |
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Comic_Sans said: By that logic then life isn't fine and dandy for Jews in Europe since their population in Europe is in decline and many Jews fled Europe since after WW2.If something causes the population of a certain ethnic minority group to reduce by such great numbers then yes, that's probably because life there isn't all fine and dandy. @Comic_Sans Those articles don't show widespread persecution of Jews like was the case in Nazi Germany. Some interesting stuff from your first article http://forward.com/news/319269/irans-jews-win-secure-place-in-mullahs-world-with-strings-attached/ "Shortly after this, restrictions on emigration were lifted. So those who live in Iran today are choosing to do so. Even cash bonus offers from Israel ranging from $10,000 for individuals to $61,000 for families have failed to move those now living there to leave. Those making the choice to stay, even as their leaders bristle with hostility toward Zionism and the State of Israel, live under an umbrella of government protection. And Jewish life in Iran can be rich. In Tehran alone there are 13 active synagogues, five Jewish schools, two kindergartens and a 100-bed Jewish hospital, where Moreh Sedgh serves as director. There are active communities in several other cities, including Shiraz, Isfahan and Kermanshah, with institutions of their own. As Najafabadi put it: “There is no oppression. But there are limitations.” Working in the Jews’ favor is the deeply embedded nature of their presence in Iranian society, where they have never been ghettoized, and in which they are seen — and see themselves — as pre-eminently Iranian, woven into 2,700 years of Iranian history. Your articles mention certain suspected zionists that work for Israel in the past have been arrested or executed but not the entire Jewish population being attacked or targeted simply because of their religion. From your article http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4361005,00.html "Though she agreed with the rabbi that there is a distinction between the treatment of Jews as a religious minority under Islamic rule and the attitude toward Israel and Zionism". Rabbi Ba'al Haness' statement is not baseless: Iran's Jews are able to enjoy Jewish life including mikvehs, synagogues and even governmental religious services. I don't really trust this article here https://www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2013/05/13/the-perils-of-religious-persecution-in-iran/#685d0ec8241d since Forbes is American and would obviously push an anti Iranian narrative as much as possible. This article http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/iran-vast-diaspora-abroad-and-millions-refugees-home/ just generally talks about general emigration from Iran and immigration to Iran by Afghan and Iraqi refugees. It barely even mentions Jews. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews#Safavid.2C_Afsharid_and_Qajar_dynasties_.281502.E2.80.931925.29 This is barely even 20th century and not on the same level as the pogroms, inquisitions, holocaust in Europe. Also important to take not of for the 20th century and beyond "The Pahlavi dynasty implemented modernizing reforms, which greatly improved the life of Jews. The influence of the Shi'a clergy was weakened, and the restrictions on Jews and other religious minorities were abolished. Reza Shah prohibited mass conversion of Jews and eliminated the concept of uncleanness of non-Muslims. He allowed incorporation of modern Hebrew into the curriculum of Jewish schools and publication of Jewish newspapers. Jews were also allowed to hold government jobs. After the deposition of Mossadegh in 1953, the reign of shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was the most prosperous era for the Jews of Iran. In the 1970s, only 1% of Iranian Jews were classified as lower class; 80% were middle class and 10% wealthy. Although Jews accounted for only a small percentage of Iran's population, in 1979 two of the 18 members of the Iranian Academy of Sciences, 80 of the 4,000 university lecturers, and 600 of the 10,000 physicians in Iran were Jews. At the end of the discussion, Khomeini declared that "We recognize our Jews as separate from those godless, bloodsucking Zionists and issued a fatwa decreeing that the Jews were to be protected In the Islamic republic, Jews have become more religious. Families who had been secular in the 1970s started adhering to kosher dietary laws and more strictly observed rules against driving on the Shabbat. They stopped going to restaurants, cafes and cinemas and the synagogue became the focal point of their social lives. Haroun Yashyaei, a film producer and former chairman of the Central Jewish Community in Iran said, "Khomeini didn't mix up our community with Israel and Zionism – he saw us as Iranians." In June 2007, though there were reports that wealthy expatriate Jews established a fund to offer incentives to Iranian Jews to emigrate to Israel, few took them up on the offer. The Society of Iranian Jews dismissed this act as "immature political enticements" and said that their national identity was not for sale. Interesting point here about immigration to Israel. Iranian Jews are generally allowed to travel to Israel and emigrate abroad, though they must submit passport and visa requests to a special section of the passport office, face restrictions on families leaving en masse, and travels to Israel must be done via a third country. However, the rate of emigration has been low. Seems different from you and that other guy's narrative about Iranian Jews being super restricted from travelling abroad. Going by this it seems Iranian Jews are specifically being bribed to leave Iran and go to Israel instead of leaving because of religious persecution. In July 2007, Iran's Jewish community rejected financial emigration incentives to leave Iran. Offers ranging from 5,000–30,000 British pounds, financed by a wealthy expatriate Jew with the support of the Israeli government, were turned down by Iran's Jewish leaders. To place the incentives in perspective, the sums offered were up to 3 times or more than the average annual income for an Iranian. However, in late 2007 at least forty Iranian Jews accepted financial incentives offered by Jewish charities for immigrating to Israel. It has been asserted that the majority of Iranian Jews prefer to stay because they are allowed to live a comfortable Jewish life, though Iranian-American activist Sam Kermanian disputed this claim, stating that the majority of Iranian Jews are elderly and only speak Persian, and as a result are less naturally inclined to emigrate. Noboru said: All the Gulf countries except Yemen are well off, have very low crime ,some have higher value currencies than the Euro and there are a lot of American and European expats living there. The only major problems seems that they are super religious and can be restrictive in certain areas and they don't treat migrant workers and women that well. When it comes to Africa it was destabilized since decolonization happened during the Cold War unlike Europe which was split in two during the Cold War but stabilized on each side by America and the Soviet Union. America spent lots of money to build back western Europe after it was fucked up after WW2. I agree with you there the Atlantic slave trade , Scramble for Africa and decolonization devastated Africa. Africa would have been better off with zero European contact and should currently focus on mainly dealing with China instead of Europe and America. Europe and America just like to destabilize Africa while China invests and builds infrastructure benefiting the continent. China has never done anything to destabilize Africa."All" is a bit too over-exaggerated. A lot of ME and African Countries aren't really great Places to live in and it would have been better for many African Peoples, if they hadn't had any Contact with Europeans at all. Peoples, who live as a Nature People don't suffer from Civil-Sicknesses and/or from Poverty. There is a huge Difference in how a random ME or African Country had come into Contact with modern, European Civilization first, and how Japan had done so. For the latter Case, Globalization was a Win for Humanity, but for the former Case, it did way more Harm than Good. Of course it was different since Japan wasn't outright conquered by Europe and felt the full force of European imperialism. Japan's Asian neighbors China, Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam etc. are the ones who really felt it. |
DrGeroCreationMay 18, 2017 2:59 AM
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| @DrGeroCreation By that logic then life isn't fine and dandy for Jews in Europe since their population in Europe is in decline and many Jews fled Europe since after WW2. This fits you like a glove:No shit the Jewish population in Europe is in decline, that's not what I was questioning. Straw manning isn't going to get you anywhere. I have never questioned the fact that the Jewish population of Europe is in decline, I am questioning the fact that an Islamic theocracy would somehow be a "better" place for Jews to live.Muh Nazi Germany We're not comparing pre WW2-WW2 numbers, we're talking post WW2 only. The fact that Jews historically have been more persecuted in Europe than Iran doesn't automatically signify that that is still the case today and after WW2 there have been no persecutions on those levels. What's next? Are you going to tell me that Spain is an Islamic country because it used to be until the 15th century?More scibbie-dooing Najafabadi says it himself in the part that you emboldened that there are limitations. The article also mentions that they are protected second class citizens, not just citizens. So, not a Jewish paradise, in other words.Zionism isn't an argument for executing someone. I don't give a shit about whether you trust Forbes or not. Until you can bring me proof that disproves their claims, your personal opinion is not an argument. It mentions that religious minorities in Iran are fleeing the country because they're not being treated well. There is no reason why Jews should be restricted from travelling to Israel or have special travel restrictions imposed upon them. Yeah right that 290,000+ would be bribed to live outside of Iran. You think the Israeli governement is made of gold? "Iranian-American activist Sam Kermanian disputed this claim, stating that the majority of Iranian Jews are elderly and only speak Persian, and as a result are less naturally inclined to emigrate." You "forgot" to embolden that part. Anyway, where is that theocratic European dictatorship of yours where the Jewish population has declined by 90 % because they're being treated as second class citizens? I keep on looking on the map but I can't seem to find it. |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
No they aren't Your arguments are always flawed with no proof to back it up imeli said: Your proof is unreliable. No, my proof is reliable You don't get to decide if my sources are reliable or not since you yourself never provide proof imeli said: Your arguments are invalid and therefore flawed. No they aren't I always show proof to back up my claim On the other hand, you have no proof to back up your claim Therefore, your arguments are invalid and flawed Comic_Sans said: This fits you like a glove: No shit the Jewish population in Europe is in decline, that's not what I was questioning. I think it is fairly accurate to assume that the reason Jews population is decreasing in Europe is how they are treated. Comic_Sans said: Straw manning isn't going to get you anywhere. Your Argumentum Ad Populum and Fallacy Composition isn't going to help either Comic_Sans said: I have never questioned the fact that the Jewish population of Europe is in decline, I am questioning the fact that an Islamic theocracy would somehow be a "better" place for Jews to live. Islamic Theocracy? lol Once again, no proof to support your claim Unlike you, I have provided proof. Jews are treated more fairly and live a better life in Iran than in Europe as the article suggested. If you think otherwise then that's just wishful thinking. Comic_Sans said: Muh Nazi Germany Yes, Nazi Germany. Hitler slaughtered 6 million Jews And last time I checked, Hitler wasn't Iranian Comic_Sans said: We're not comparing pre WW2-WW2 numbers, we're talking post WW2 only. No, you don't get to decide which events to exclude or not. You don't get to turn a blind eye to the 6 million Jews who were slaughtered in Iran Europe Comic_Sans said: The fact that Jews historically have been more persecuted in Europe than Iran doesn't automatically signify that that is still the case today and after WW2 there have been no persecutions on those levels. No it does signify Because as I said, last time I checked Hitler wasn't Iranian. Anyway, unlike you I have proof to support my claim. As the article suggested, Iranian Jews live a whole lot better life in Iran than in Europe Comic_Sans said: What's next? Are you going to tell me that Spain is an Islamic country because it used to be until the 15th century? That's a False Equivalence. That's it! Comic_Sans said: Najafabadi says it himself in the part that you emboldened that there are limitations. The article also mentions that they are protected second class citizens, not just citizens. So, not a Jewish paradise, in other words. No, another one of your false arguments with no proof to support it. Comic_Sans said: Zionism isn't an argument for executing someone. Another false argument, they do not execute innocent Jews Anyway, Israel is a Zionist state since they have taken over Palestinians land, raped their women, killed their children, etc. It's good that Iran does not have any relations with Israel and they shouldn't either. Israel slaughtering Palestinian people Israeli soldiers shot Palestinians because they were bored I mean look at how they treat Christians in Israel They even have illegal Nuclear weapons. Israel nuclear weapons Iran is far more better than Israel Comic_Sans said: I don't give a shit about whether you trust Forbes or not. Until you can bring me proof that disproves their claims, your personal opinion is not an argument. You don't get a say in that. All the articles you showed were Zionist Propaganda. Your arguments are ludicrous and hold no credibility whatsoever. Comic_Sans said: It mentions that religious minorities in Iran are fleeing the country because they're not being treated well. Another one of your false arguments. Or should I say Zionist Propaganda? If you can prove my article fake then go ahead else you have to accept that you are wrong. Comic_Sans said: There is no reason why Jews should be restricted from travelling to Israel or have special travel restrictions imposed upon them. No they should be. Israel is an apartheid state and Iran is not an ally of Israel. Therefore, if those Jews can't support their country then they are not Iranians but traitors. Israel apartheid In fact Israel can also kill those Jews or hold them hostage because this is what they do when a Jew speaks against Israel. This is how that Zionist state treats Jews who are against their apartheid Iran forbids those Jews to travel to Israel for their own protection. Comic_Sans said: Yeah right that 290,000+ would be bribed to live outside of Iran. You think the Israeli governement is made of gold? Another false argument. Anyway, Israel government is not made of gold but they can steal other people's land or ask their big brother "USA" to support them. I mean look at how they stole Palestinian land. They can do it again if they want since no one takes actions against them. They already broken numerous International laws since 1947  Israel's violation of International laws And you say Iranian Jews should be allowed to go to Israel? Don't make me laugh! Iran is far more better than Israel They didn't break any international laws, they do not have any illegal nuclear weapons (even though the media blames them that they are trying to buy it just so they can invade them) And as the articles suggest, they treat religious minorities equally. On the other hand, these are the rights that Palestinians have in Israel. Palestinian rights in Israel Human rights for Palestinians in Israel Israel enforces severe and discriminatory restrictions on Palestinians’ human rights, and it builds and supports unlawful settlements in the occupied West Bank. Its security forces appear to use excessive force against Palestinian demonstrators and suspected attackers, raising the specter of extra-judicial killings. It has renewed the practice of punitive home demolitions. The Palestinian Authority has arrested students and activists allegedly for their political affiliation or because they expressed criticism. Hamas security forces also engage in torture and ill-treatment of people, including journalists. Israel’s closure of Gaza, supported by Egypt, amounts to collective punishment and has impeded reconstruction. Jews in Iran Compare these rights of Palestinians in Israel with the rights given to Jews in Iran and say I am wrong. I mean yeah I know you support Hanif Bali, but at least try to be logical in your arguments Comic_Sans said: "Iranian-American activist Sam Kermanian disputed this claim, stating that the majority of Iranian Jews are elderly and only speak Persian, and as a result are less naturally inclined to emigrate." You "forgot" to embolden that part. Argumentum Ad Populum? Check Anecdotal Evidence? Check Fallacy Composition? Check Your arguments are ludicrous and hold no credibility whatsoever. Comic_Sans said: Anyway, where is that theocratic European dictatorship of yours where the Jewish population has declined by 90 % because they're being treated as second class citizens? I keep on looking on the map but I can't seem to find it. Another false argument with no proof to support your claim. All your arguments are a bunch of Argumentum Ad Populum and Fallacy Composition with no proof to back up your claim |
swirlydragonMay 18, 2017 9:09 AM
| Boy does this guy even knows what Argumentum Ad Popular and Fallacy Composition even means, In every thread he repeat these words like broken record. Most likely he just learned this words on internet and now keep repeating it without even realising what they actually means. |
imeli said: You show no reliable proof to back up your claims. I always show reliable proof to back up my claims. Therefore your argument is invalid and flawed. No, it's the other way around. You are the one who does not provide reliable proof unlike me Therefore, your argument is flawed |
swirlydragon said: Yes and it does not say Muslims did that. In fact they helped re-build the cemetry Once again, another false argument Or should I say Fallacy Composition? *sigh* Once again, dozens of Jewish headstones have been vandalized, stoking fears of heightened anti-Semitism. And once again, members of the Muslim community are rallying to help. The latest spate of destruction came over the weekend at Mount Carmel Cemetery in Philadelphia, where 75 to 100 tombstones were toppled. A week earlier, at least 170 headstones were damaged at a Jewish cemetery in St. Louis. Muslim activist Tarek El-Messidi, who had started a fund-raising campaign to help clean up the St. Louis cemetery, sprung to action again after the Philadelphia attack. As for Philadelphia, 49.46% of the people in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania are religious, meaning they affiliate with a religion. 25.90% are Catholic; 0.45% are LDS; 4.36% are another Christian faith; 1.11% in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania are Jewish; 1.09% are an eastern faith; 2.63% affilitates with Islam. Source Did you ever wonder, why I am the only one who supports his claims by showing proof when we argue? Maybe, it's because I am the only one who talks about facts? :\ Since I don't think anybody has taken the time to point this out to you, or if they did I just missed it and this post can be safely ignored It's sort of kind of debatable, trying to put it nicely, that this counts as substantiating your argument in any way, since the example you brought up here isn't even from a city in Europe. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania is a major city in the United States of America. There is literally an entire ocean between it and Europe ._. I guess if we were talking about America it could be relevant, but...the thread is about Europe ._. Should use examples from places actually in Europe to hold meaning, y'know? |
ManabanMay 18, 2017 9:35 AM
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DrGeroCreation said: What about the Baghdad-Railway and the Suez Canal?Europe and America just like to destabilize Africa while China invests and builds infrastructure benefiting the continent. China has never done anything to destabilize Africa. Not our Fault that the Railway in the ME flopped. Of course it was different since Japan wasn't outright conquered by Europe and felt the full force of European imperialism. Japan's Asian neighbors China, Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam etc. are the ones who really felt it. Then what made Japan so special that it was the only Asian Nation to have colonized others, rather than having been colonized themselves? |
We have a meme for this kind of thing at Talkbass.com... |
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| THe comment trail byh @swirlydragon and @imeli in this thread has been truly inspiring and informative to read, I feel my life has taken a better turn thanks to reading it. I thank you both sincerely. |
| I am somewhat skeptical in trusting the words of just this one politician and this article since one; I already have a distrust for politicians since a lot of the ones I've seen are compulsive liars, and two; there is jack squat when it comes to citations on the article supporting this claim. I adhere more to logical data than to words. Also with the reports of what has been happening in Europe (even though I do not believe Jewish people are a particular target), I do find this a little hard. I do want to think highly that the Muslims/ Islamic peoples there are in fact very accepting (also heard they have a thriving biotechnology field there on a side note which makes me want to agree with this), but with the actions happening in the world right now. Yeah, I am getting little reasons to think highly. |
| Well yeah, it makes total sense that Jews would be treated better in a country who's leader denies the Holocaust Nope, nothing suspicious at all here, I swear guys! |
omfgplzstop said: That's not impossible, I just find it hard to believe that ALL of those 290 000+ Iranian Jews living outside of Iran would have been "bribed by them Zionists!!!1!!!" to leave the country. Most of them probably fled precisely because they're being treated like shit.The bit about "bribing" Iranian jews in 2007 to immigrate is true. Israel sees the jews in Iran as potential hostages and wanted to encourage them to immigrate by eliminating some financial fears. |
Comic_SansMay 19, 2017 8:22 AM
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
| So, to be honest from the start: I am pretty Israel-Biased. I speak Hebrew and was in Israel two times. the last time last Autumn in the voluntary program of the IDF(Sar'El). But: I am not a Jew, all my ancestors are either Nazi or Communist. I just plan to do a Machal after school for 18 Months before actually working. But since I know some jews because of my visits, I know the situation here in Germany. Germany is again as antisemitic as in the 1930s. But not the Germans, but the Muslims. It's no altright propaganda but reality. One day I was at a checkpoint in Gaza(We were dispositing new sandbags on the roof of a guard house) and suddenly there was a large group of muslims. I was really frightened because we were actually replacing the sandbags which were broken by shots a day ago. But what I saw then was the most rude act I ever saw. They threw stones at the guards so the guards pointed with their weapons. Then a guy shouted something and instantly 4 children ran at the guards. The Muslim was taking a video of the Israeli soldiers pointing weapons at the children. After that they retreated instantly when a Soldier fired two shots. They are for fucking real dangering their childrens lives just to get these pictures. Later I spoke with one of the Soldiers and he explains to me that these situations happen pretty often. He showed me a raw Video where the (father?) of a child hit it with a car and the children theatratically went to ground. He was dressed up a an IDF Soldier. In the raw Video it looks harmless, but the cutted version looks like a IDF Soldier drives purposely to a child and is even laughing about it. Thats the situation in the East... And here in Germany? Well what should I say, all the people from northern Africa are coming to us at the moment, so you can Imagine. I just learn Hebrew, I am not even a Jew. So one time I learned it in the tramcar and got shouted at by a turk. Here in Bremen there are often antisemitic graffities on the synagogue and muslims are actively discriminating jews in public for example spitting at them or hitting them. So yeah, I am not even shocked by the report of the DW |
omfgplzstop said: Is that so, then I don't see what the problem is (although some people are probably going to find a way to blame them zionists again)Oh, then yeah, that's not true at all. Iranian Jews and partisan israelis in the US raised the money, and Israel approved of the idea. Some Israeli Iranian jews did mention that most of the remaining jews in Iran would not agree to emigrate for those amounts because most of the ones who stayed in Iran were jews with money, and even their children had usually already migrated to America (Less go to Israel than America overall, presumably because of the anti-Israel propaganda broadcast in all Muslim countries). Regardless, all this happened in 2007, and once. After only a small amount of Iranians agreed, it didn't happen again. |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
gintamaftw1 said: Really? How do you check if a member has been banned or not?LOOOOOL swirlydragon got banned, faggot probably sitting behind his computer banging on the keyboard right now. |
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what in the fuck is this thread. its pretty obvious europe is more tolerant of jews than fucking 'at least we got 100 families' iran. I havent looked into it much but reading through this thread it seems pretty clear lol. Its not like muslims are bad people its just islam is a very anti-tolerance religion which is tied unbelievably close with their culture as well as government. |
イカロス --I K A R O S D E S U-- "Hai master" <3cruise   Becoming the bell of my heart dont click here, baka -->> https://soundcloud.com/franciscan-guitar |
| Can we stop with the nonsense here? I mean really, your experiences as any kind of person is going to vary heavily based on your exact circumstances, etc, etc, trying to break down experiences by the heavily artificialized notion of "country" is an exercise in futility. |
omfgplzstop said: I don't know much about zionists apart from the fact that they apparently run the world and that they were the true culprits behind 9/11. At least that's what the ctrl + alt righters and islamist apologists told me, so I guess it must be true.@Comic_Sans woops, I mistyped and it can give the wrong impression. Iranian Jews in the US and partisan Israelis are the ones who raised the funds. The way it's written in my post makes whether it was jews still in Iran or not unclear, so I apologize. And yes, people will blame "zionists," which is a vague point since most Israelis, including minorities, are Zionists. Less so for Muslims, but a larger percentage of them supports the existence of a jewish nationstate than in other middle eastern countries, even if they don't speak out about it. But ignorance is kinda funny so it's k. John_2001 said: It's not possible to check that but he hasn't been online since yesterday at 10:40 PM so he has most likely been banned, otherwise he would still be here telling you that your arguments are ludicrous and preposterous.Really? How do you check if a member has been banned or not? |
Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
Comic_Sans said: omfgplzstop said: I don't know much about zionists apart from the fact that they apparently run the world and that they were the true culprits behind 9/11. At least that's what the ctrl + alt righters and islamist apologists told me, so I guess it must be true.@Comic_Sans woops, I mistyped and it can give the wrong impression. Iranian Jews in the US and partisan Israelis are the ones who raised the funds. The way it's written in my post makes whether it was jews still in Iran or not unclear, so I apologize. And yes, people will blame "zionists," which is a vague point since most Israelis, including minorities, are Zionists. Less so for Muslims, but a larger percentage of them supports the existence of a jewish nationstate than in other middle eastern countries, even if they don't speak out about it. But ignorance is kinda funny so it's k. John_2001 said: It's not possible to check that but he hasn't been online since yesterday at 10:40 PM so he has most likely been banned, otherwise he would still be here telling you that your arguments are ludicrous and preposterous.Really? How do you check if a member has been banned or not? lmfao. your arguments are ludicrous and straw-men. i am not islamophobic like you zionists israel did 9/11 and created obama i always provide proof and you dont: islamisgoodwepromiseconvertordie.org your argument is preposterous and ludicrous! |
Rinth said: Every opinion is not equal. Some opinions are simply made out of shit. nasuverse > your favorite anime |
| @Comic_Sans Comic_Sans said: So the Jewish population decreasing in Iran proves without a doubt that Jews are treated terribly in Iran but a decrease in the Jewish population in Europe proves nothing?I have never questioned the fact that the Jewish population of Europe is in decline, I am questioning the fact that an Islamic theocracy would somehow be a "better" place for Jews to live. Comic_Sans said: Okay so lets then talk about the 21st century then. This is from the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights and focuses on antisemitism in the EU http://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2013/discrimination-and-hate-crime-against-jews-eu-member-states-experiences-andMuh Nazi Germany We're not comparing pre WW2-WW2 numbers, we're talking post WW2 only. The fact that Jews historically have been more persecuted in Europe than Iran doesn't automatically signify that that is still the case today and after WW2 there have been no persecutions on those levels. http://fra.europa.eu/en/publication/2013/discrimination-and-hate-crime-against-jews-eu-member-states-experiences-and/findings-q%26a 3. How common do respondents consider antisemitism to be? A majority of respondents (66%) consider antisemitism to be a problem across the EU Member States surveyed. On average three out of four respondents (76%) also believe that the situation has become more acute and that antisemitism has increased in their country over the past five years. How common is antisemitic discrimination in the EU? 23% of all respondents reported having experienced some form of discrimination on the ground of their religion or ethnic background in the past 12 months. In all countries, antisemitic discrimination most often happened at work (11%), when looking for work (10%), or at school or in training (8%). Most of those who felt discriminated against because they were Jewish did not report their most serious incident of discrimination to any authority or organisation (82%). When asked why not, 57% said that nothing would have changed by reporting; a finding similar to other FRA studies. How do Jewish people feel treated by society? Around a fifth (23%) said that they occasionally avoid visiting Jewish events or sites because they do not feel safe there or on the way there because they are Jewish. Just over a quarter (27%) occasionally avoid local places because they do not feel safe there because they are Jewish, with the highest proportions found in Belgium (42%), Hungary (41%) and France (35%). One in ten respondents (11%) has either moved or considered moving out of their neighbourhood in the past five years due to concerns for their safety as Jews. Such concern led close to one third (29%) to consider at some point emigrating. This particularly applied to respondents in Hungary, France, and Belgium (48%, 46%, and 40% respectively). The prohibition of traditional Jewish practices would be a big problem for a majority of all respondents (76% saw prohibition of circumcision as a problem, 58% said the same about traditional slaughter)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe "In the post-Cold War era, a new antisemitism in Europe has coalesced. The new antisemitism emanates from the far-right, the political left, and a growing Muslim population within European nations. A statistical analysis shows that 150 million people across Europe have "serious anti-Semitic" or "demonic view of Israel". http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39078952 Going by this it's not as bad as WW2 era but anti semitism does seem to be a big problem European Jews are still facing even in the 21st century in Europe. I rarely agree with Altarius but Muslim immigration from Sunni majority nations to Europe can be part of the reason why life would be better for Jews in Shia majority Iran than for Jews in Europe. To my knowledge there haven't been any Islamic terrorist attacks in Iran targeting Iranian Jews in the 21st century as there has been in Europe. Comic_Sans said: I didn't say it was a Jewish paradise.. Also let us look at the definition of second class citizen.Najafabadi says it himself in the part that you emboldened that there are limitations. The article also mentions that they are protected second class citizens, not just citizens. So, not a Jewish paradise, in other words. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/second-class-citizen "a citizen, especially a member of a minority group, who is denied the social, political, and economic benefits of citizenship. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-class_citizen "Restrictions on freedom of language, religion, education, and property ownership, and other material or social needs." Iranian Jews can practice their religion, are not restricted in the pursuit of education, not restricted when it comes to language and property ownership so even if there are a few limitations they don't fall under second class citizens. The Romas in Europe to me seem more like second class citizens than Iranian Jews. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/04/life-slovakia-roma-slums-poverty-segregation-170425090756677.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/03/government-failing-educate-integrate-roma-children-170301171600351.html http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/02/thousands-roma-homeless-france-2016-170207204706535.html Comic_Sans said: Spying for Israel though could be since that could fall under treason.Zionism isn't an argument for executing someone. Comic_Sans said: Sources can be biased when trying to push a narrative. Any mainstream American news outlet is going to only be negative toward Iran since ever since Iran removed America's puppet and the whole hostage crisis America hates Iran and vice versa. Even in the article there they just randomly bring up Iran's nuclear program. Next time please refrain from using a biased source.I don't give a shit about whether you trust Forbes or not. Until you can bring me proof that disproves their claims, your personal opinion is not an argument. Comic_Sans said: Here is what I don't understand. Iranian Jews are supposedly super restricted from traveling yet you constantly bring up how a huge amount of the Iranian Jewish population has migrated from Iran to other places including Israel. If they are heavily restricted then how are they migrating in mass like that?There is no reason why Jews should be restricted from traveling to Israel or have special travel restrictions imposed upon them. Yeah right that 290,000+ would be bribed to live outside of Iran. You think the Israeli governement is made of gold? Well the Israeli government does get a lot of financial aid from America http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/total-u-s-foreign-aid-to-israel-1949-present so I don't think it would be difficult for it to fund something like that. Comic_Sans said: If Iranian Jews are so super heavily discriminated against as you claim then age and language skills wouldn't even matter."Iranian-American activist Sam Kermanian disputed this claim, stating that the majority of Iranian Jews are elderly and only speak Persian, and as a result are less naturally inclined to emigrate." You "forgot" to embolden that part. Comic_Sans said: As I've shown you from the report European Jews are facing heavy anti semitism in Europe in the 21st century and also terrorist attacks. The fact that Iran has a theocratic Muslim government and European countries don't doesn't prove that European Jews have life better than Iranian Jews.Anyway, where is that theocratic European dictatorship of yours where the Jewish population has declined by 90 % because they're being treated as second class citizens? I keep on looking on the map but I can't seem to find it. @omfgplzstop omfgplzstop said: The Middle East isn't a continent.Funnily enough, if you want to compare continents, let's compare the middle east and europe. omfgplzstop said: Could you provide that Iranian law in Persian with it's English translation?It isn't "immigration of families en masse" that's forbidden, it's traveling as a family. It's written law that jews cannot take their family with them on international travels, just like it's written law that they cannot be judges. |
DrGeroCreationMay 19, 2017 4:12 PM
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| I'll put some unrelated info: I'm a jewish person who lives in Israel. The state of jews in europe is HORRIBLE. Why? Many jews come from around the world to israel throughout the years, and especially from France these years. We have special classes in my school which teach the jews from France- Hebrew. I've heard a few stories and they said that they were always afraid to walk outside because someone might insult them for being jewish. But I'm happy they're coming over to Israel. Maybe it is hard to live here, but they won't meet anti semitism here. |
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