Voice actress Caitlin Grass: "If an anime hasn't been licensed where you live... you're not allowed to watch it!"
| *confused about how this thread about pirating anime suddenly turned into a thread about socialism* @Kittens-kun: There's no defending piracy, doesn't mean you can't do it, but there is no defense in doing so. Whether Funimation has craptastic players or not, there is no excuse or defense to justify piracy. Just do it and own up to it. But stop trying to defend it. And I'm think I'm done here. I'm going to continue to lurk though and might post here and there. But I pretty much said my answer to every argument about piracy. |
ArillionOct 15, 2017 5:36 PM
Aplope said: Kittens-kun said: How is pirating not an option? It's always a option. The good course is to endourse criminals then? Lol. "criminals" I mean, I guess you're technically right. But you can't really group pirating in with other crimes. I think we can all agree that someone robbing a gas station at gun point is a more serious offense than watching One Piece on KA. |
TsukuyomiREKTOct 15, 2017 5:39 PM
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Ari_the_Lioness said: *confused about how this thread about pirating anime suddenly turned into a thread about socialism* @Kittens-kun: There's no defending piracy, doesn't mean you can't do it, but there is no defense in doing so. Whether Funimation has craptastic players or not, there is no excuse or defense to justify piracy. Just do it and own up to it. But stop trying to defend it. And I'm think I'm done here. I'm going to continue to lurk though and might post here and there. But I pretty much said my answer to every argument about piracy. I don't agree with that, but whatever. |
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Kittens-kun said: Cyborg_Icarus29 said: so paying the production committees is not a legit way to support the industry? are you freaking serious now?. the money from the japanese fans goes to the production committees too ya know. Is there a guarantee that those committees will actually pay the staff of the studio? No, because we can see that they don't. The staff make shit wages. This has been known for awhile. And is Western revenue changing that situation? Nope. In fact, it's getting worse. Plus, the Japanese fans generate more money at a base level. One otaku buying hundreds of Blu-rays, figures, and other shit obviously means more than a 7$ subscription. this is not a good argument. we are not talking about how the production committees pay their animators. we are talking about how western companies support the industry by licensing shows. they are doing their part by buying these licenses. the way most production committees pay their animators is not funimation's fault. if you wanna pirate then go ahead, no one is holding you back but stop trying to justify what you're doing with lame excuses. i mean i pirate too but i don't go around and tell people that paying for legal sites is pathetic and useless. |
Cyborg_Icarus29 said: Kittens-kun said: Is there a guarantee that those committees will actually pay the staff of the studio? No, because we can see that they don't. The staff make shit wages. This has been known for awhile. And is Western revenue changing that situation? Nope. In fact, it's getting worse. Plus, the Japanese fans generate more money at a base level. One otaku buying hundreds of Blu-rays, figures, and other shit obviously means more than a 7$ subscription. this is not a good argument. we are not talking about how the production committees pay their animators. we are talking about how western companies support the industry by licensing shows. they are doing their part by buying these licenses. the way most production committees pay their animators is not funimation's fault. if you wanna pirate then go ahead, no one is holding you back but stop trying to justify what you're doing with lame excuses. i mean i pirate too but i don't go around and tell people that paying for legal sites is pathetic and useless. It IS useless. It's already been explained multiple times. We get a thread like this all the time. |
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Cyborg_Icarus29 said: . if you wanna pirate then go ahead, no one is holding you back but stop trying to justify what you're doing with lame excuses. He's going to continue defending it like it's justifiable to steal someone's work. Really no point in continuing the discussion with him. |
| I'm wondering if she actually cares about the subject or if she's just keeping up appearances so she can keep getting hired for dubs. Or maybe her reasoning is if people pirate the unlicensed stuff then they won't watch the stuff she's in legally either. Problem with unlicensed shows is that they're not offering us a way to support them, so watching it on a pirate site is no more harmful to the creators than accepting that it's unlicensed and not watching it. And it might be more financially damaging to hire someone to bring it to the west legally if they don't think it will sell well there, so I don't think they're losing sleep over the small group of american weebs watching their stuff on a pirate site. |
| Signature removed. Please follow the signature rules, as defined in the Site & Forum Guidelines. |
Ari_the_Lioness said: Cyborg_Icarus29 said: . if you wanna pirate then go ahead, no one is holding you back but stop trying to justify what you're doing with lame excuses. He's going to continue defending it like it's justifiable to steal someone's work. Really no point in continuing the discussion with him. If it's not provided legally, then it is. It's not really worth having a discussion with moralists either btw. |
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Kittens-kun said: Ari_the_Lioness said: He's going to continue defending it like it's justifiable to steal someone's work. Really no point in continuing the discussion with him. If it's not provided legally, then it is. It's not really worth having a discussion with moralists either btw. No it's not justifiable. But I'm going to practice what I preach and not continue this discussion with you, because you are going to keep defending stealing likes it okay to do because it's 'not available'. |
Ari_the_Lioness said: Cyborg_Icarus29 said: . if you wanna pirate then go ahead, no one is holding you back but stop trying to justify what you're doing with lame excuses. He's going to continue defending it like it's justifiable to steal someone's work. Really no point in continuing the discussion with him. yep i agree with you. it's very useless and i won't bother arguing with him anymore. |
Ari_the_Lioness said: Kittens-kun said: If it's not provided legally, then it is. It's not really worth having a discussion with moralists either btw. No it's not justifiable. But I'm going to practice what I preach and not continue this discussion with you, because you are going to keep defending stealing likes it okay to do because it's 'not available'. That's exactly what I'm saying, because it's true. If Ippo was available on Crunchyroll, then I can't justify why I pirate it beyond just hating CR. But it's not, so I don't give a fuck. It's their fault, not mine. |
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Hey_Taka-tin_Hey said: Kittens-kun said: If it's not provided legally, then it is. It's not really worth having a discussion with moralists either btw. Oh, my sweet summer child... You're from the US. You've got no clue what it's like actually struggling with geo-blocking on a daily basis. Yeah, I don't. But wouldn't that be more of a reason to pirate? |
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| I don't wanna wade too far into this thread since MAL has a hard time keeping a productive discussion going, but discussions about socialism are actually kind of on topic. A classic argument socialists make against capitalism is that capitalists who own property (including intellectual property) create artificial scarcity by restricting access to it. This is especially true with something intangible like anime where there is no physical limit on how much an anime can be distributed. To a socialist, restricting access to anime would be yet another example of capitalism extracting wealth for something that has no variable costs. There's another socialist argument out there that states creative works ought not to be made for the purpose of profit. A lot of unsophisticated anime (say ecchi) sell quite well. Such anime are often criticized on artistic merit, but that's not the point of anime made under capitalism. Within capitalism, anime solely exists to make profit, artistic value be damned. There's also other arguments that say intellectual property laws stifle creativity by legally restricting creative works one can make. The people in this thread who criticize piracy while sporting anime avatars are also likely violating international copyright law as their use of images taken from an anime was likely not licensed and not necessarily covered until fair use (fair use is much more limited that than the internet pseudo-lawyers think). Remember copyright laws are not written for the benefit of the general public or fans of content or even the creators of that content. Copyright law is written for the benefit of the owners and licensees of that content. I think we probably would be better off if copyright was abolished, but I'm not completely sure about that. tl;dr the people who say there are no ethical arguments for piracy are wrong Edit: corrected typos |
| "The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all." Ecclesiastes 9:11 (NIV) |
Hasty_Boom_Alert said: The people in this thread who criticize piracy while sporting anime avatars are also likely violating international copyright law as their use of images taken from an anime was likely not licensed and not necessarily covered until fair use (fair use is much more limited that than the internet pseudo-lawyers think). i remember reading somewhere that copyright laws in Japan are actually more strict than the ones in US, but they follow common sense before applying the law - otherwise things like comike would not exist. as for fair use...that may not necessarily apply, since that's a US law and anime is owned by Japanese companies in Japan. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
DreamingBeats said: i remember reading somewhere that copyright laws in Japan are actually more strict than the ones in US, but they follow common sense before applying the law - otherwise things like comike would not exist. as for fair use...that may not necessarily apply, since that's a US law and anime is owned by Japanese companies in Japan. I'll admit AFAIK there is no precedent for action against noncommercial use of screenshots on websites, but I don't see any reason why it would be strictly legal. IANAL, but foreign intellectual property should follow local laws as Japanese law can't be enforced in the US. Fair use would likely apply, although this would be limited to the US. Edit: Of course I have an anime avatar too so I certainly don't take that idea too seriously. My point is that a lot of the people who get sanctimonious about piracy do not realize that the long reach of copyright law can reach them, too. |
| "The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all." Ecclesiastes 9:11 (NIV) |
| By this logic, you're not allowed to import anime, either, because it wasn't licensed. LMFAO. |
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IpreferEcchi said: By this logic, you're not allowed to import anime, either, because it wasn't licensed. LMFAO. Not sure if this was directed at me, but I believe it is actually illegal to import an unlicensed anime without permission from the owner. I know it's illegal to export anime from the West to Japan (this is done to arbitrage anime price differences between Japan and West). |
| "The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all." Ecclesiastes 9:11 (NIV) |
Hasty_Boom_Alert said: Not sure if this was directed at me Do you think I actually read every reply here? I believe it is actually illegal to import an unlicensed anime without permission from the owner. So anime is on a special pedestal compared to literally anything else you buy somewhere and take home with you, because...that's how buying things works? |
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IpreferEcchi said: So anime is on a special pedestal compared to literally anything else you buy somewhere and take home with you, because...that's how buying things works? Anime isn't on a special pedestal, copyrighted material is. Under modern intellectual property law, content creators are allowed to restrict where their works may be distributed. If you buy something in Japan and bring it back when you go home, I doubt anyone would care, but I could see police getting involved if this was done on a commercial scale. It's like those T&C video games have that say "You don't actually own this game. You just own a license to it." |
| "The race is not to the swift or the battle to the strong, nor does food come to the wise or wealth to the brilliant or favor to the learned; but time and chance happen to them all." Ecclesiastes 9:11 (NIV) |
Hasty_Boom_Alert said: IpreferEcchi said: So anime is on a special pedestal compared to literally anything else you buy somewhere and take home with you, because...that's how buying things works? Anime isn't on a special pedestal, copyrighted material is. Under modern intellectual property law, content creators are allowed to restrict where their works may be distributed. If you buy something in Japan and bring it back when you go home, I doubt anyone would care, but I could see police getting involved if this was done on a commercial scale. It's like those T&C video games have that say "You don't actually own this game. You just own a license to it." Reselling things isn't illegal, or else sites like eBay wouldn't exist. You're getting this mixed up with selling pirated copies. |
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| tl;dr this thread: "LUL sub > dub" "xD english voice acting, why does that exist xD" "how dare she tell us what we call steal and what we can't!!" "lel can't stop me from getting muh free animu" Oh MAL, you're still the same garbage place I've always known. |
| Well, in a way she is correct. I understood her points.... But... I'm gonna type in capslock on this one. WHEN THE HELL WOULD ANIMES BE LICENSED IN INDONESIA?! Simple as that, most animes here are downloaded or pirated into discs, as there is no other ways of watching. If its about having blurays from Japan... Sadly... We don't get such things I believe. I'm saying this from my viewpoint and should be easy to be understood. |
| Life isn't as fun and easy as anime. Watch anime to bring that fun!! |
Aplope said: Jag vet redan att socialism inte är kommunism. När har jag påstått det? Dina halmdockor är inget vidare.Again, stop with the Wikipedia... You can't frikin attempt to define socialism in one sentence. It's unreal. As I told you, socialism ain't communism. You're debating something that's implied in the frikin name. What on Earth you think the "Social" part of "Social Democracy" stands for? SD is a type of socialism, and Germany's one of the heaviest ones in Europe, as well as the Nordic one. The state intervention over companies, monopoly laws, petrol distribution,... Hell, even cucumbers imports are regulated by specific laws in order to not disturb the economical balance of some regions. Having a "free market" doesn't change any of that. Kapitalismdelen i det som utgör den socialdemokratiska ideologin försvinner inte bara för att du önskar att den inte fanns. Vad vill du att jag ska göra? Trolla bort den? Läs på lite om de nordiska länderna och Tyskland (nej, Tyskland tillhör INTE Norden, så sluta tro att du är någon expert, för det är du inte) istället för att bara upprepa skit som du har läst på republikanska bloggar. Socialism i teorin handlar om kooperativa styrelseformer och kollektivets förmåga att lösa problem tillsammans och strikt anti-kapitalism medan det i praktiken blir som Venezuela (statskapitalism, staten äger alla företag och det fungerar inte). Inom socialdemokrati handlar det om att kontrollera kapitalismen – ja, med strikta regleringar, men det fungerar varken som socialism i teorin eller i praktiken. Det är därför som det brukar finnas både ett socialistparti och socialdemokratiskt parti i dessa länder, åtminstone här i Sverige. Så än en gång, kom inte här och tro att du är någon expert. By the way, I'm not American and since you said you ain't either, you should stop pretending you know what they think. It's not that people think the nordics are socialists, it's the most objective truth. The PES, comprising the socilist bloc of the UE is dominated by mainly nordic and slavic countries, Denmark having presided it until 2014. What better examples are there? Så jag får inte uttala mig om vad amerikaner tycker eftersom jag inte är amerikanska men du får däremot uttala dig om en hel region som du inte kommer från och som du, till råga på allt, uppenbarligen inte vet ett piss om? Är det din logik?PES är bara ett namn. Dessutom heter det inte någonting med socialism på alla språk, på exempelvis svenska heter den just Europeiska socialdemokraters parti och inget annat. Inget av partierna som är med där är renlärigt socialistiskt. I alla fall, nu har du återigen skrivit ett inlägg som inte har någonting överhuvudtaget att göra med det som tråden handlar om. Jag har inte tid för dina fasoner eller att ha långa utläggningar på svenska om sosseri när jag bara vill skitinlägga, så stick om du inte tänker hålla dig till ämnet! |
Comic_SansOct 15, 2017 10:05 PM
 Nico- said: Conversations with people pinging/quoting me to argue about some old post I wrote years ago will not be entertained@Comic_Sans oh no y arnt ppl dieing i need more ppl dieing rly gud plot avansement jus liek tokyo ghoul if erbudy dies amirite |
| lul Like her opinion matters...... |
NANACHO FOR PRESIDENT |
lime93 said: Buying the dvd/bluray you never have to worry about quality of the video player. I like being able to watch something like Sora no Otoshimono on bluray. Nothing online can compare. I stream anime online too but if I really enjoy the show I try and buy the box set. Most of the times they don't cost too much either. I got the box set of most of my favorite anime for no more than $35. I remember watching Nichijou waiting for it to be on bluray but Bandai cancelled the American release because people don't buy anime that much, luckly funimation picked it up 6 years later so I can watch Nichijou whenever in the highest quality possible I strongly agree with you :) (hopefully I don't sound rude or confusing sorry if I do) Having a psychical copy of something and having the best audio and visuals without any buffer and stuff like that is the best way to experience really any show (imo) I will admit I do have FUNI and HIDIVE subscriptions so I do watch some stuff online first before deciding if a series is for me or not. And you can keep the DVD for as long as you want, you don't need wifi or power (if you have a mini DVD player like myself) so theirs alot of upsides (imo) sorry for rambling on. |
  All the Anime's on my list are all one's I own Personal physical copies of, or have seen in theaters that I plan on buying, series that I've watched on FUNimation or HIDIVE will not be on here unless/until I have already bought it. |
CrallyLystia said: Well, in a way she is correct. I understood her points.... But... I'm gonna type in capslock on this one. WHEN THE HELL WOULD ANIMES BE LICENSED IN INDONESIA?! Simple as that, most animes here are downloaded or pirated into discs, as there is no other ways of watching. If its about having blurays from Japan... Sadly... We don't get such things I believe. I'm saying this from my viewpoint and should be easy to be understood. Yeah I can agree with you on this stuff I say if you're in a place that has access to the DVD's and the non pirate sites probably be better if you could support the industry. But I understand well that in some Countries like you said where you are that don't get anything like that it's a bit more trickier so downloading and like you said pirate copies of anime's might be the only way to watch them. So in my opinion the community has a I don't know the proper word I want to use I guess I'll say weighted depending on economy,Country/location, minimum wage/income and some other stuff. So yeah kind of difficult with this (sorry if I sounded rude at all or confuse you I'm not the best at getting what I want to say out properly and I'm always anxious I'm going to make someone upset.) |
All the Anime's on my list are all one's I own Personal physical copies of, or have seen in theaters that I plan on buying, series that I've watched on FUNimation or HIDIVE will not be on here unless/until I have already bought it. |
| This is just my opinion but think of it this way say you had a job as a novelist and you illegally read the stuff you would loose a small chunk of revenue and that could make it difficult if you don't get paid for your work/job and voice actors don't get paid much to begin with. Through the internet I've searched a bit and they get paid pretty much peanuts (Dub companies) and I'm guessing it also depends on how much of a recurring character you/they voice or how much work you can get in the industry as well so those extra profits from DVD's, Con's and other things would be helping them in the long run. But again this is just my opinion on the matter and I can understand why alot of not just anime but ones who produce tv shows in general that get on to illegal websites would be upset, since they are loosing sometime on what they need to survive on. |
All the Anime's on my list are all one's I own Personal physical copies of, or have seen in theaters that I plan on buying, series that I've watched on FUNimation or HIDIVE will not be on here unless/until I have already bought it. |
| if you're buying a physical disk, bluray is the better option, even though it's more expensive. dvds don't last for very long and are limited by the video quality (one of the movie dvds i have now have trouble playing due to a few scratches), while bluray is far more durable and offer a significant leap in quality. |
| You can buy lossless digital music from your favorite Japanese artists on https://ototoy.jp/. The songs are all DRM-free and you can re-download your purchased albums as you wish. Show your support to your favorite artist if you can! ps. if you are looking for Japanese albums, you have to search it in Japanese (not romaji). Just copy and paste the name. For those who want to learn Japanese through anime Resources for learning the language |
| rofl this woman wouldn't even have a job if people didn't watch anime in places where it's not even licensed westerners bite the hand that feeds them |
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| The fact that anime can be accessed easily via streaming sites without payment is one of it's appeals, I don't know anyone with a subscription to any of these anime services and I doubt someone that just wants to watch a few shows will invest in a subscription service. |
| Yeah that's bullshit, but not like most of you would pay anyway, so don't act like you're some poor victim. |
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animefan0071 said: Though DVDs don't have 'the best audio and visuals'. The audio-visual quality of the DVDs I own (mostly British releases and also some American cause I'm lucky to have a region free DVD player, anyways not sure how it works but almost all of them have a Funimation logo on the cover) doesn't compare to the BD rips I downloaded from torrents, especially when it comes to older shows like Cowboy Bebop. If you buy stuff because you want best quality, then buy BDs.lime93 said: Buying the dvd/bluray you never have to worry about quality of the video player. I like being able to watch something like Sora no Otoshimono on bluray. Nothing online can compare. I stream anime online too but if I really enjoy the show I try and buy the box set. Most of the times they don't cost too much either. I got the box set of most of my favorite anime for no more than $35. I remember watching Nichijou waiting for it to be on bluray but Bandai cancelled the American release because people don't buy anime that much, luckly funimation picked it up 6 years later so I can watch Nichijou whenever in the highest quality possible I strongly agree with you :) (hopefully I don't sound rude or confusing sorry if I do) Having a psychical copy of something and having the best audio and visuals without any buffer and stuff like that is the best way to experience really any show (imo) I will admit I do have FUNI and HIDIVE subscriptions so I do watch some stuff online first before deciding if a series is for me or not. And you can keep the DVD for as long as you want, you don't need wifi or power (if you have a mini DVD player like myself) so theirs alot of upsides (imo) sorry for rambling on. |
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| technically, yes, they are... but fuck it, we are not in 60's anymore... it is their loses not adapt with current industires... |
 "If taking responsibility for a mistake that cannot be undone means death, it's not that hard to die. At least, not as hard as to live on." |
| LOL Who cares what some shitty dub-making GAIJIN thinks? LMAO She's just mad that her job is a sad joke. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
| It's so wrong to pirate! Time to go open a subscription to anime strike amazon, netflix, CR, Hulu etc. Now I feel much better! Not like those meanies that are watching everything I am for free! Well at least I can pretend that I am supporting the anime industry. |
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Kuma said: technically, yes, they are... but fuck it, we are not in 60's anymore... it is their loses not adapt with current industires... wait. are you talking about nippon or dubbing companies? if you're talking about the all mighty nippon then you're right, the way they sell their products is dumb and outdated. if you're talking about dubbing companies then pleas tell me how they are supposed to "adapt to current industries"? do you want them to license every series from nipppon and sell it for two bucks or something like that? |
MortalMelancholy said: LOL Who cares what some shitty dub-making GAIJIN thinks? LMAO She's just mad that her job is a sad joke. >calling a good voice actress "shitty" because she is a dub actor. T O P K E K my dude. |
Cyborg_Icarus29 said: MortalMelancholy said: LOL Who cares what some shitty dub-making GAIJIN thinks? LMAO She's just mad that her job is a sad joke. >calling a good voice actress "shitty" because she is a dub actor. T O P K E K my dude. I mean yeah, American gaijin dubbers are the shittiest of all shits. Shitty applies to the dub version itself too. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
MortalMelancholy said: Cyborg_Icarus29 said: >calling a good voice actress "shitty" because she is a dub actor. T O P K E K my dude. I mean yeah, American gaijin dubbers are the shittiest of all shits. Shitty applies to the dub version itself too. naaaaaaaaaaaaaah she's actually good and she acted in good dubs like the FMA:B dub and the baccano! dub. |
Cyborg_Icarus29 said: MortalMelancholy said: I mean yeah, American gaijin dubbers are the shittiest of all shits. Shitty applies to the dub version itself too. naaaaaaaaaaaaaah she's actually good and she acted in good dubs like the FMA:B dub and the baccano! dub. That's the first I've heard of this, so it sounds rather unlikely. |
| Be thankful for the wisdom granted to you. |
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