Gnosia Episode 21 Discussion

So... I'm confused.

I thought Setsu still needed to go back to the first Worldline and give that Yuri the Silver Key, not the current version that's already gone through 2.
Does this mean she's technically given him 2 Silver Keys in different Worldlines? How/When does she go back to the first and give him that one? Or was that a different variation of her and she just needed to give a version of Yuri a Silver Key? If that's the case it wouldn't have to be the bug version.
I thought the whole idea of going to her universe was so Setsu could use the portal from Yuri's Silver Key to return to Worldline 1.

Can someone explain? Otherwise it just feels like a plot-hole, and I really want to like this.

Also, is Yuri still a bug in the next worldline?

I am just confused. Setsu send the finished silverkey to another universe with kukurushka. So that leaves bug Yuri with a silverkey but he disappears. So now Setsu is just gonna life with the real Yuri? But in that time line there wasn't another Yuri so he got killed in the planet? So now Setsu just gonna life alone??😵‍💫😵‍💫

Great show. Got better every week and ended beautifully.

So Kukurushka's true nature ended up being the final piece of information that Setsu needed to get rid of their Silver Key. That ended up being the entire point of Yuri's journey to reach Setsu.
The Kukurushka we've interacted with all this time was actually a time looping Manan from the true ending.
Setsu's existence disappearing meant that Manan never got into Kukurushka's body and never started looping- that's why she never woke up in the second round of loops.

Yuri's fate is left ambiguous. Being a bug, he essentially made the sacrifice play by ending Setsu's loops at the cost of his own existence. I swear, these two can't stop sacrificing themselves for each other. But Yuri might've survived? Perhaps Gnos only deleted his Silver Key, and not him. We'll never know.


I do wonder what happened right after the last scene. If Yuri and Setsu's Silver Keys are gone, with only Setsu, SQ, Gina and Raccio (and *maybe* Yuri) left alive, does that mean this dimension is essentially a permanent bad ending for the rest of the characters? Well, they're all alive in the previous ending's universe anyway, so it's fine I guess.

8/10 overall, great show. Will miss watching this one every week.

So... I'm confused.

I thought Setsu still needed to go back to the first Worldline and give that Yuri the Silver Key, not the current version that's already gone through 2.
Does this mean she's technically given him 2 Silver Keys in different Worldlines? How/When does she go back to the first and give him that one? Or was that a different variation of her and she just needed to give a version of Yuri a Silver Key? If that's the case it wouldn't have to be the bug version.
I thought the whole idea of going to her universe was so Setsu could use the portal from Yuri's Silver Key to return to Worldline 1.

Can someone explain? Otherwise it just feels like a plot-hole, and I really want to like this.

Also, is Yuri still a bug in the next worldline?

The Manan transfer animating Kukrushka is interesting, and we get an explanation for the personality not matching most of the time, but what about her being gnosia? The remaining SQ is treated as no longer a gnosia threat, so presumably that went with Manan, but Kukrushka is as likely to be gnosia or not as the rest of the crew. How does that work? Sure, we've seen that quality flip between loops and Kukrushka has apparently been looping too, but she can only be animated by a consciousness that started as a gnosia. How is there any possibility line where she's not? If we say that gets scrambled sometimes being in a doll too then that seems hard to square with them being detectable by scanners and mobile during warp. That's a lot more than a personality modification.

@Will_Bradley seem to me another dimension is just another world line.

I am more confuse is that setsu bring over the coma Yuri to another dimension. so what happen to that dimension yuri?

@Will_Bradley My interpretation is that Setsu and Yuri are back in the 1st timeline. Manan has already killed "real Yuri" in that universe as a Gnosia. (Remember when it was explained that every timeline where there is Gnosia, Gnos creates "bug Yuri" and the real Yuri dies before meeting 1.)

Setsu claimed she had not seen Yuri in her loops. In her first attempt at gaining information in this timeline, Setsu gives the Silver Key to (baby) bug Yuri, but has to restart that timeline because she does not obtain the information that our (old) bug Yuri provides. This is probably her second+ attempt at obtaining information from this timeline, realizing, this is the loop she's going to start re-living for eternity, because there is no new information in this loop to be found, hence the erratic question when Yuri wakes up. At this point, old Yuri's consciousness is transferred over, allowing the Worldline to split into a different path.

(Assumption) Once the Gnos erases the consciousness of (baby) Yuri and the key, what remains is the physical bug body and old Yuri.

We don't actually see Setsu's key be completed in the first episode. So think of the 1st episode as "Setsu fails to obtain new info and finish her Silver Key," and the last episode as, "Setsu repeats the timeline, this time succeeding." In the same way that Yuri continuously offed themself before progressing the Silver Key a few episodes back. Then it becomes regular time travel logic- same timeline, different results branching out.

Setsu giving Yuri the key in Episode 1 is part of their bootstrap paradox.
My interpretation is that the Bug-destroys-the-universe loop is what caused the bootstrap paradox to go haywire.

Setsu and Yuri both gave each other the Silver Keys originally. That's their own loop of cause and effect. They travelled through loops at their own pace and different sequences, so when they met during the Bug loop, Yuri was done looping, but Setsu wasn't.

This is where Setsu decided to break their bootstrap paradox of eventually giving each other Silver Keys. They took Yuri's filled key and original body to a different dimension, so that the current dimension stays stable and Yuri can live there without any version of him looping- because Setsu, the one who gave him they Key was erased from the universe.

When Yuri reached Setsu again, he instantly grabbed the host seeking Silver Key because he had made a deal with Gnos to erase it alongside his 'Bug' self, essentially sacrificing himself. Setsu, who would've given her own key to this dimension's Yuri eventually, realized the truth about Kukurushka, thanks to info from our Yuri. She pawned it off to Manan. That's how she got rid of her own key and their loops ended.

Yuri's fate is ambiguous. He might be dead, a bug or fused with his other self so he can live normally. Up to interpretation.

@certifiedbinger probably this timeline they are on other ship or become gnosia.

the anime nv explain what make Kukurushka (Manan) go berserk

That wasn't Setsu's key dude.
It was the empty host-seeking key that Raccio stumbled upon.
Yuri took it in so it would be destroyed with him.
Setsu's own key was taken by Manan.

And not getting new info? We literally saw Yuri go through a completely new set of loops in his second attempt, so it would make sense for Setsu to have gotten new loops as well.

Yuri going back wasn't about cause and effect. He went back to TAKE the Silver Key, because, as he said, Gnos would destroy it with him and Setsu could be free. I think his plan was to take Setsu's key, and somehow hide the empty one without a host. That plan went to shit when Raccio found it, so he had to take the empty one in. We can even see it get destroyed around the same episode 10 mark you mentioned.

Yuri was the one who told Setsu about Kukurushka's absence in a world without Setsu in it. That's what made it click for Setsu. It wasn't all Yuri, but he's the one who brought the final bit of info she needed.

@Will_Bradley I only brought up the fact that it was a different Silver Key cause you seemed confused about it in the original post. We don't literally SEE Setsu giving it to Manan, but she did give it to her at the end of the episode. And Yuri took in the empty key.

If you go back and look at the last time Yuri took in the Silver Key, there's a completely new frame. It was like the Silver Key snapped away once it went inside Yuri. That didn't happen before. Yuri himself looks pretty surprised about it, and says He's fine for now. That's cause he was expecting to be deleted by Gnos, but only the Silver Key got deleted.

As for what filled Setsu's key, it's never shown, so you're free to theorize. She only takes it out halfway into the episode and says that it's already full. It could be Kukurushka info, Yuri taking the empty key (even though there's no direct 'info' gained here) or maybe she had it filled before, and this is where she got stuck. In the beginning of the episode, Yuri says she would've kept looping- probably this same Episode 1 loop as long as she didn't pass the key to Yuri. Yuri was under the impression that that was the only way to connect cause and effect so they can both end it.
However, Kukurushka's true identity connected cause and reality in a different way, without any loss of life in the final timeline.

I could go on, but my point is, the show was pretty logically sound. There weren't any noticable issues or contradictions- I'm usually the first person to point them out. I think criticism on repetitiveness or characters not being fleshed out are valid, but the looping bit was done quite well.

@VeryBadPilot There are similarities to the 1st Worldline, but we've never seen them revisit a previous worldline before (it isn't time-travel). Also, this is in a completely different universe so that worldline should be way off limits, not even an option.